We are recording a series of interviews with the 3800 team and our friends to share who we are, why we gather around the same table, and what our work means to us.

In the fifth instalment of this series, we had the pleasure of talking to our very own Georgina Williams. We discussed Georgina’s unwavering curiosity, and how she embarked on a path that eventually brought her to the fascinating intersection of behavioural science and mental health. 

Sophie Hill: Can you describe your career journey that led you to 3800?

Georgina Williams: Where do I start…I feel like my personal life intersects with my professional life, so it feels important to me to share it.

My professional career probably started well before going to university, in the sense that growing up as a young person, it was just me and my mom, and my mom struggled quite a bit with her mental health. So I became, I guess, a young carer. I thought, I'm pretty good at this, so maybe I should turn it into a profession. That led me to becoming a social worker.

I went to Uni, studied mental health, social work, and then through that learning journey, I think that's what gave me my wings and helped me to understand myself. My own choices, decisions, experiences and the relationships around me made sense.

I think that's where my interest in education started to peak,
because I thought, if people can develop their own awareness through knowledge, then they're going to be in a much better position to make choices for themselves and their lives.

I did quite a lot of traditional social work and then I heard about the Recovery College, which was a fairly new movement in health at the time. That was around thinking about how can you educate people so that they can develop their own skills to live the life that they choose, regardless of difficulty. That obviously spoke to me a lot.

I was successful at getting a role there, so I became a coach and have been for the past nine years. I've written a lot of personal development courses and workshops in order to help people get back in the driving seat of their own life and recognise their own resourcefulness.

I quite quickly became eager to reach more people and go, “why should it just be one to 14 people developing these skills? Is there a better way of helping as many people as possible make choices that can improve their lives?” And that's always been a passion.

Four years ago I met Dave and I think it was about understanding how design and how behavioural science then start to intersect. Because they're two separate things, but at the heart of them it's about influencing change and improvement, understanding how humans are affected by that and making things, or at least creating things that are going to have a meaningful contribution. That’s an interesting relationship.

We we're thinking “how can we work together and join these two worlds?” That led me to behavioural science as a journey from social work and education. That's now looking at that strategic change on a broader scale. It’s about thinking, in the kindest way, we're not always that wise, and whilst we might think we know what is the best decision, we don’t always find the right one.

This led us to the thinking “how can we help people to improve society, improve lives, but through a different modality?” That might not be education, it might be actually through things in people's environment and through the way that a space is designed.

I guess at the heart that journey, which is a long one, is change, improvement and making a contribution in an ethical way. That’s what has always got me out of bed in the morning.

SH: Your role in behavioural science is one that is rarely found in the traditional workplace. Why do you think this area is often overlooked in business?

GW: I think people, once they know some of the key concepts of behavioural science, the attitude is, “oh, can you just add a bit of behavioural science to this please? Let’s get it through the door” It's sometimes seen as a sticking plaster, a quick fix, in the same way that design could equally be sugar coated and just seen as the glittery side rather than the substance part.

I think in terms of the world of work, a lot of behavioural science is about understanding that granular detail, the processes that are behind the scenes. Without being able to fully understand the process behind something, we can all have great ideas about what we assume is impactful. It could be, “oh, I've got a good idea, I want to put this product out into the world”, or “this is where the issue is, so let's address that”. 

I think this might sound quite strong, but there is a moral obligation to pull together people that can design for good, as well as looking at the people behind it and the psychology and the impact of that, so that the contributions that are made are intentional. Otherwise it is just like stabbing in the dark or hoping for the best. 

We've all got biases around what we think should be produced or what solutions we should arrive at. Without excavating those opportunities properly, there might be a lot of unintended consequences with what we put out into the world. 

There is an area of behavioural science that does look at designing work, which is really interesting. I think that there's a need for more collaboration between those skill sets to make an impact.

SH: What do you think are the key ingredients to make a workplace an enjoyable place to be?

GW: I think it's interesting thinking about people's expectations of work and if even enjoyment is the right word. But that feels like another conversation entirely.

I think it's about trust and psychological safety. If people do not feel safe, like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, forget it. There's going to be no progression. People will not able to be honest, to make mistakes, to ask for support, to celebrate in their successes. Trust and safety is like the foundation to the house. It has to be there to build upon.

If you feel that your place of work resonates with what matters to you, then that's naturally going to increase the satisfaction that you get from showing up, as well as then the willingness to do things that are hard because anything meaningful is going to take graft.

If you know what those values are and you've got trust and safety, then the rest I think just works itself out. Having that mutual respect and admiration for each other because you believe in the work that you're doing.

Workplaces can provide a space, but also there’s the individual thinking about what they need and what matters to them, perhaps based on their life experiences. I wonder sometimes if those individuals have taken that time to understand what they need, what they’re passionate about and what matters to them.

Having asked yourself those things you are then better equipped to show up and do good work with support from like minded people around you.

SH: If you could be gifted one random (non work related) skill or talent what would it be and why?

GW: That's interesting. I'm always being told that I try to "boil the ocean", as in I take on things that are just so big. So I think it would be the ability to be super laser focused. But then I'm going, “really? Is that what I want to develop?” 

I'd love to be able to sing. That's funny that that's come out, actually. I think there's a lot for me around expression and voice that I'm passionate about and a lot of that does reflect in my work. I think it took me a lot of years to find my voice, to be able to speak up. So I think that as an expression would be lovely. Just a more creative expression of me would be nice.

Maybe I should start having singing lessons now, why not?!